Householders hit with Property Tax regardless of Stamp Duty paid: Is it fair?

Householders hit with Property Tax regardless of Stamp Duty paid: Is it fair?

Householders hit with Property Tax regardless of Stamp Duty paid: Is it fair?Householders’ pockets will be further pinched with a new Property Tax. The tax, which will eventually be based on the value of the site a property is built on, will initially be introduced at a flat rate of €100 levy (as a taster) on each household from 2013.

Speaking on the subject of a Property Tax back in July, Minister for Finance Brian Lehihan said; ‘We’ve seen a huge reduction in the value of property so that the capacity of the capital taxes to raise money has reduced according’… ‘If you keep endlessly increasing taxation, you will destroy confidence in the economy’ he added. – So much has changed.

The ESRI said that homeowners who had bought their house and paid stamp duty in recent years would need to be given a waiver, as they should be regarded as having already paid a property tax, but Jim Ryan, a partner at accountants Ernst & Young, said: “There is no provision for a credit for stamp duty paid in recent years against the site charge.”

Personal finance experts last night warned all new taxes, levies and charges will squeeze ordinary families further and push many over the edge financially.

Have Your Say:

  • Householders hit with Property Tax regardless of Stamp Duty paid: Is it fair?
There are 45 comments for this article
  1. Adrienne Randall at 11:39 am

    So can anyone tell me what is the difference between Fianna Fail and the British Landlords who lorded over us for 800 years…. FF think they are Irish royalty and behave accordingly… suck up to the wealthy, the employers(minimum wage) the bankers… but they get all their money from the workers and the poor… We should be dragging them out of their fancy offices and cars and horse whipping them for what they have done to this contry…

  2. liam at 5:32 pm

    i paid stamp of 14000 just in Nov , its not paid to the revenue yet

    can i now pay 1 % instead of this 7 %

    please assist , deeds not signed yet

    thanks

    • cmah55 at 10:42 am

      Hi Liam, if you are currently in the middle of a transaction and have not yet the paid Stamp Duty at 7% then the new rate of Stamp Duty at 1% should be applicable. The new Stamp Duty rates will apply to property transfers on or after December 8th. However, it was also said yesterday that provisions will be put in place to ensure that anyone who has entered into a binding contract to purchase a house before December 8th, and who completes the transfer of that property before July 1st, 2011 will not lose out. However it would be wise check everything over with your Solicitor and to ensure you are paying the correct Stamp Duty.

  3. pauline reid at 12:39 am

    I don’t understand how they can make people pay a tax on their own land, if your house is freehold you have already paid for the land, if its leasehold you are renting the land your house is on, what gives them the right to put a tax on something you already own… unfortunately I don’t think we will have any option of paying this outrageous tax as I am assuming it will be added directly onto mortgage repayments, they may have a bigger problem getting it from those who have already repaid their mortgages – quick everyone apply to our generous banks for an enormous personal loan to pay off your mortgage so they cannot collect the payment – bah humbug Biffo!

  4. A.Elsayed at 11:30 am

    What happenning force many highly skilled peaple to leave the country , seeking immegration or back home .

  5. Rosaleen Butler at 9:58 am

    So can anyone tell me what is the difference between Fianna Fail and the British Landlords who lorded over us for 800 years…. FF think they are Irish royalty and behave accordingly… suck up to the wealthy, the employers(minimum wage) the bankers… but they get all their money from the workers and the poor… We should be dragging them out of their fancy offices and cars and horse whipping them for what they have done to this contry…

  6. Shelly HQ at 8:02 am

    It should be one or the other!

  7. Svetlana at 11:34 pm

    It is not fair – but will our voice make a difference I suppose – if Europe is leaving Ireland illegally to charge VRT tax and we are paying knowing it is illegal, i think the same will happen with the property tax we will be asked and we will pay for it as the people are not strong enough to fight for their rights. we have been milked like the cows in our fields left to believe it is normal.

  8. marie at 11:22 pm

    the property tax is OUTRAGEOUS! apart fromthe fact its making the general public pay for the greed and corrution of the government and the banks what will we get for it? at least the council tax in uk pays for your bins, parks etc.and you get a discount for single occupancy, council tax benefit if you are on benefits i.e the unemployed dont pay it. when the government half their own massive salaries,scrap their expense accounts and chauffeur driven mercs, take the bankers to court and prosecute them for fraud THEN i will think of the VERY SMALL amount i AM ABLE TO CONTRIBUTE. frankly the sanctimonious attitudes of some on this forum astonish me! God help us if the majority think like this, as the country will just roll over and let the powers that be walk all over the ordinary people. the PEOPLE are supposed to be sovereign in ireland. for Gods sake lets stand up for ourselves and REFUSE to pay it (and the watermetres,another story!). they cant jail ALL of us!

  9. susan fletcher at 7:42 pm

    Theft by any other name. What are we supposed to be paying for here ? Our taxes already pay for any public services, so this isn’t even a stealth tax. It is theft. I already pay for my water, and certainly will not pay to have a water meter installed so that I can be charged for it again. Do these people think that everyone is stupid ? I don’t expect the people of this country to pay my overdraft, or dodge my dodgy dealings, but it looks like the majority of people living here are expected to do so by the minority. One answer is that everyone stays at home on polling day – don’t vote for anyone. Or only tick ONE box on your voting paper – at least then you will know who you are voting for !

  10. PatrioticPatrick at 6:16 pm

    Once again we are going for the easy option.Dont face up to the real problem,tax everybody the same number regardless of relative values in the name of equity and fairness.It must be obvious that the palatial houses of the wealthy are on sites more valuable than your humble semi D in Darndale or Ballymun without going through the tortuous process of valuing every house in the country before a different levy or property tax can be applied.Ask any local Dublin taxi driver to show you the expensive houses in Dublin and I would be surprised if he would have difficulty in bringing you to streets where even the dogs in the street know that the houses are very valuable not to mention areas like Howth and Dalkey,Foxrock,etc.The same broad brush approach could be repeated accross the country.These expensive houses should then be levied/taxed at levels similiar to poll taxes in Britian or property taxes in equivalent sized cities with built in appeal mechanisms for special cases.This would generate immediate income and would make the paying of the 100 euro levy more palatable for Mr. and Mrs. Semi D.We should not forget our farming friends especially those with their South fork houses .Again everybody in farming know where the best land is,who the check book farmers are and who the subsistance farmers are.The wealthy farmers should be levied on a par with their British or continental equivalents again with an appeal process for special cases.Finally a special levy on the properties of our “Non Doms” should be introduced which gives them the opportunity to make a contribution to the country of their birth but for tax reasons have chosen to live outside the country for a sufficient number of days of the year while still keeping up the pretence of being committed patriotic Irishmen like the rest of us.These guys parade about like pillars of society, often undertaking high profile “charity” work and are regularly lauded by Government and the media as “highly generous men”.In the US, unpatriotic action like this, would see them excluded by their peers from higher class society organisations either for charity or other good causes.
    So in sum I say let’s all put our shoulder to the wheel to drag our little country out of the hole we are in but lets do it on a proper equitable basis.

  11. Helen at 5:01 pm

    I plan to boycott a property tax if asked to pay it on account of the 35,000 stamp duty I paid in 2006. I think there should be a waiver for those who were charged excessive stamp duty on over inflated house prices. Alternatively think there should be a refund of stamp duty where property values have dropped!! Now that would be nice ! (We can but dream) ….

  12. Hazel G at 4:41 pm

    I must agree with many of the others on this, we bought homes, paid good money for them and should be left to live and enjoy what little there is left to enjoy in this country of ours.

  13. Simon at 4:15 pm

    Totally unfair for people who paid huge amounts of money already, I’m against a property tax in principle anyway.

  14. karl kelly at 3:26 pm

    who the hell is this jim ryan fella to make that statement what a clown i paid 35000 stamp duty in 2008 and sure wont be paying anymore tax were did all the stamp duty money we paid go to so certainly no wont be paying

  15. reeves at 3:22 pm

    The question isn’t whether its fair or not. Property tax is socialism run rampant, and it should be repealed forthwith. Why should some pay for others? Why should those who have worked and earned their money (homes) pay for those who haven’t? The distribution of wealth puts all the power into the hands of government. Is this what the people want? Do you want to live under a dictatorship, or do you want to live free from your government? It appears the people who are complaining about the cutbacks in government spending are acting like children in a sandbox. What happens when the government runs out of other peoples money? What are you going to do then? You put yourselves into this position; now you have to pay the piper. Next time think about your children and grandchildren who have to pay for your stupidity. Try the capitalist system that works mainly for the “little guy,” and keeps government out of your private lives. I feel more sorry for your attitudes than financial distress, all brought about by your thinking you can have what others have earned.

  16. Alison Scanlon at 3:15 pm

    I am clinging to this country because I have purchased a home here during the celtic tiger years.. It is coming to the point that I will not make my mortgage repayments and that is without even further cuts expected in next budget.. If I lose my home, there is nothing worth clinging onto in this country.. I ‘ll be heading abroad.. Where will they get their tax revenues from then..

    It is sickening listening to the radio this morning when they are stating that they have to set up another NAMA for mortgages(not developers loans). Don’t be conned this is to bail out the banks again and we are still left to pay off the mortgage repayments for our homes and the IMF Loans needed to recapitise these banks.

  17. kymberly Dunne-Fleming at 3:14 pm

    Surely there has to be some kind of EU rule against double taxation? Some accountant somewhere should be able to spot a hole in this. We bought our house in 2004 and I do not feel I should have to pay out again. I know that a lousy €100 will fool some people into coughing up but its the thin end of the wedge. Of course I never voted for FF and I never will.

  18. Maryanne Dalton at 3:04 pm

    If the Government are going to introduce a property tax, what needs to be implemented is that every property has a property tax account linked to the property and it’s owner. Any money that has already been paid in the form of stamp duty should be credited to that account and the amount for every year since the stamp duty has been paid should be withdrawn from it. That way anyone who has paid stamp duty would not pay property tax until all the credit from the stamp duty paid has been used up! Otherwise, it is total an utter theft!

  19. emer at 3:03 pm

    It is certainly not fair. There should be an exemption for those who have paid stamp duty over the past 5 or 6 years until 2020. This may reduce the tax revenue but what difference is that going to make in the long term when waste is still rife in the public sector?
    I’ll pay the tax if the state takes some reasonable action over the outrageous salaries paid in the state and semi state sectors. Bring on the common sense approach.

  20. Sean at 3:03 pm

    Consider that most countries have a property tax that is collected annually and can be in the range of 2% of value of house. For example in US, if you own a $500k house you pay around $10,000 a year in property taxes. €100 in comparison seems paltry. Stop the whining. It could be worse!

  21. wickedfairy at 3:01 pm

    agree with all of the above. They have been helping their mates for years. Turning a blind eye. I think the by-election in Donegal today has shown that people know parish pump politics is well over, its about the whole country now. Cannot believe they have not gone to the Dail yet, thought it would have happened last week. Get them OUT. Jail the bankers and all people found to have raped Ireland for their own nefarious ends. March in Dublin tomorrow to get rid of them! How dare they sign our country over (this is to be signed on Sunday so this weekend is very important), they have no madate from us anymore. New times. New beginnings.

  22. Billy at 2:56 pm

    All the complaints I have heard and read are about those who paid stamp duty in last few years. What about those of us who paid it ten/twenty years ago. why is their case any7 different from any one elses. And if it is a prperty tax it should be on the property value not land value. Why should my little house be taxed the same as a big house built on the same size land.
    And those of you in negative equity. It only matters if you want to move. So stay put and stop moaning. It’s your problem not mine and other tax payers. Everyone wants everyone else to pay for their mess. It was the keeping up with the joneses’ attitude (or bettering them) that inflated house prices. If people refused to pay these inflated prices the developers would soon have dropped them. I am completely anti FF but we need to get out of this mess and it appears that everyone wants everyone else to pay for it bar themselves.

  23. Aisling at 2:53 pm

    People who live in managed estates already pay managment fees covering street lighting etc that the council cover in other estates. so they should not be paying a property tax also.

  24. gwen at 2:49 pm

    That useless shower we call a goverment did this, they seen the house prices rising and did nothing about it for years, just kept taking in the huge stamp duty payments and sqandered it all, what have we got to show for all the stamp duty everyone paid over the 10 booms years? nothing, did we learn nothing from the 80’s, goverment incouraging saving in ssia, why weren’t they doing they doing the same? they used it by lowering income tax fooking everyone and buying elections. it makes me furious to think that we are left to clean up this mess while the bankers and the goverment get away scott free, they wont be struggling or losing their properties, it will be us.

  25. MisterB at 2:46 pm

    Nobody should pay a cent of property tax before political reform, for a start:

    We have far too many TD’s, all of whom qualify for a pension after the grand total of THREE years in the Dáil – and three years are largely made up of generous holiday time

    The ‘politicians’ enjoy an expenses gravy train that allows them to bulk up their cash in pocket without a single vouched receipt.

    TD’s have no shame about taking a plane to a meeting in one part of the country, and instructing their driver to drive to the same location to collect them after the meeting.

    Our wonderful patriotic ministers can deliver a speech, during which working time they earn €250 per hour, and announce that the lowest paid in our country will now be paid one euro less per hour…

    At the same time, these wonderful TD’s, the same ones who are more than a little bit responsible for the disasterous situation we are in, announce that any new public representatives will start on a salary scale that is 10% less than at present. But we eagerly await an announcement to clarify that this same reduction will apply to our elected representatives after the next election.

    And we have a capital city that has FOUR councils, a health service that merged four regional health services into one and didn’t lose a single administrative job, and useless voting machines that cost more than the likely cost of administering a cervical cancer vaccine to young children….

  26. Expat at 2:38 pm

    I’ll stick my neck out and go against the flow…..
    Many other countries have both Property Taxes and a transaction tax (equivalent to stamp duty). I live in Canada (Toronto) where my annual property tax bill is $6,000 (4,400 Euro)on a suburban four bedroom two storey house. While the transaction tax here is lower – its the annual Property tax that really ‘hurts’. Income tax levels are similar to Ireland; VAT is 15%;University fees are in the range of 4,000 Euro (before living expenses)- compared to the new 2,000 Euro level in Ireland. Minimum wage is Euro7.50 an hour – very similar to Ireland.
    In short – you are not actually over-taxed when compared to a major G8 economy. My experience of property transactions in several US states points to similar levels of Property tax.
    Food for thought for those who are considering emigrating – all the major English speaking ‘destinations’ have much higher Property tax levels than Ireland.
    I know it’s not easy right now and you are swamped with media negativity – but some cold hard calculations might help you realize that Ireland is not particularly highly taxed.

  27. BritInDub at 2:26 pm

    As someone who moved to this country in early 2007 I clearly missed the party.

    In mid 2008, after what was perceived to be, at the time, a big drop in house prices, my partner and I purchased a house. This was a home, not an investment, not a money making opportunity.

    We had previously owned a moderate sized house in Leeds, UK, the house we purchased in Dublin cost 4.5 times more than what we sold this for, we had not owned in Ireland previously. We were told that ‘we’d probably get away with not paying stamp duty’ because we had not owned in Ireland but I take pride in honesty and declared us as non-FTBs.

    This meant over €30k paid in stamp duty.

    Buying a house enabled us to move on with our lives, get married, start a family etc. so many people currently have their lives on hold because of these uncertain times. So yes, (in hindsight) we bought at an inflated price and our mortgage wipes out over half our household income and isn’t likely to reduce anytime soon, but i do not regret the purchased. I see this as our home for life.

    What i do see as massively unfair is the FF Government charging us an extra €100 (or whatever it may be) for the priviledge of owning our own home.

    I don’t expect that our €30k should make us exempt for the next 300 years but no relief for recent purchasers is a disgrace.

    The politicians are good at the blame game (it was the banks, it was consumer greed, it was the other party, blah blah) but not once have any of them, from any party, stood up to be counted and admit some blame in this.

  28. damian mcfadden at 2:19 pm

    what about people with rental properties, we are already paying a property tax in the form of second home tax, who will pay the new tax.
    i hear people saying the tenant will pay,but most tenants are getting less money themselves and are getting reductions from landlords, so they are not going to pay property tax,like they didn’t pay the second home tax.
    not everyone made large sums of money out of the good times,but we will still have to pay back the banks every penny you owe, no right off’s for joe public.

  29. David at 2:14 pm

    Of course it isn’t fair, but who said Life is meant to be fair? I am interested in the future of this country, and am here (I arrived 4 years ago), and will stay here, because in my individual day to day decisions I want to make a positive difference.
    Those like Alan who see things differently should move on elsewhere, and good luck to them.
    And those like Dublin, who saddled themselves with high mortgage payments and loans to pay stamp duty should take a long look in the mirror. They are primarily responsible for their situation, and the bank(s) who were prepared to lend them these large sums of money should only be held secondarily responsible.
    I believe what Ireland needs now are people who can ditch their sense of entitlement – the state owes me this, and replace it with a sense of personal responsibility. When all those inidividual personal responsibilities are added up, we get corporate social responsibility, and then we can start thinking about our messed up political system and clvil service…

  30. Paul Browne at 2:12 pm

    Of course it’s not. The basis of all taxtation is that it be fairly applied. Not so in this downtrodden Fianna FAIL run corrupr excuse for a republic. Big boys make bets, lose bets and the workers pay for it.
    Same old story………

  31. CeeCee at 2:04 pm

    Of course it’s not fair but when has fairness ever come into play with this government??

    I’ve paid a whack in stamp duty and I’m massively in negative equity so I’ll be paying yet another tax on a worthless asset (or should that be paying tax on a huge debt?).

  32. Dublin at 1:59 pm

    We are struggling to pay our high mortgage as it is and we are still paying back the stamp duty loan we had to get to pay our stamp duty and now we are going to have to pay more tax on top of the 20k plus stamp duty we already paid.

  33. Jamie at 1:56 pm

    I think that a property tax is a realistic taxation tool provided it is managed and charged in an equitable manner. Firstly I think that the tax should be based on square footage rather than geography. ie a 3000 square foot mansion in Tullamore should cost more than a 600 ft shoe box in Dublin. I also think that anyone who paid thousands in Stamp Duty when purchasing (in the previous 5 years) should be exempt from any such tax for the next 10 years. To tax such people would be paying tax on tax, which is supposed to be against EU tax regulation.

  34. Corrina at 1:54 pm

    The short answer is no & I’ll do my level best not to pay it. We worked our hearts out for years to get the house we wanted with the garden we wanted before I gave up work to have our children. At one stage my hubby had 3 jobs & I had 2 just so we could save enough.

    Finally 5 years ago we got our house & I gave up work 4 years ago, just after the birth of our twins. Now the government want to bring in a tax on a house we have already paid tax on! They can forget it!!

  35. Tom Brown at 1:52 pm

    Fair?…….
    Those of us living and working in the Euro Zone are doing so within a war situation. Sadness and distress all around with the added capitulation of our leaders.
    ……..a 100 euro here or there per household will make no difference at all. There are more distressing economic (battles)ahead.

    We should not have let the guilty ones escape from the jurisdiction of the Euro Zone.

    Go bhfillead go hEirinn go brach.
    Tom

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  37. Aedamar Rush at 1:44 pm

    I have no intentions of EVER paying property tax. In Feb 2005, I paid the Government €33,500 in stamp duty on my property and have told my children to be prepared for me chaining myself to the railings of the Dáil in protest. I am in agreement to everyone pooling together to help the country out of a crisis and therefore prepared to accept certain cuts but I most certainly will not be paying “Property Tax” and will go to prison rather than pay it.

  38. Roisin at 1:43 pm

    Somehow the idea of property tax like that sounds like ground rent to the government. I don’t mind taxes and charges for utilities like water but I paid enough for my house – I thought I own it now?

  39. Jimmy at 1:43 pm

    No one was forced to buy a house at the market peak or to pay lots of stamp duty, all this happened by free choice. Every purchaser could have rented one of the thousands of houses which were at all times available for rent.
    None of the tax increases being applied to us are fair, but allowing for stamp duty paid is simply not going to happen; pay your rates (or property tax, or whatever they decide to call it) and remenber when you next go to vote in a general or local election why this is happening, and vote accordingly.

  40. Tracy at 1:37 pm

    Is it fair? Of course it’s not fair! I am one of many who paid an extortionate amount of stamp duty on an average house.

    I have paid more than enough already for the land on which my home is built, I do not intend on paying another cent.

    I am outraged at how, once again, FF have moved the goal posts and decided that I haven’t paid enough. I think it’s time you called it a day Biffo, you clearly haven’t a clue.

  41. ALAN CAREY at 1:36 pm

    In addition to the people who paid Stamp Duty, what about the People who bought there first homes in the last 4 years who now find themselves in severe negative equity??

    The banks and have a lot to answer for and the Government have a cheek to ask to pay tax on something which we are paying huge mortgages on and are barely surviving as it is!!

    Tax Tax Tax, Low Tax enomony my Eye, we get Taxed on everything….Somethings twice or more, Cars for example, VRT an illegal tax in the eyes of Europe, we also pay tax when we buy the car, Road Tax and a huge amount on Fuel also, how the government has no money is beyond me!!

    Get rid of them all……

    By the way, pushing up Vat to 22% and more thereafter will only encourage people to make that trip up the north for their shopping or buying everything online.
    Thats what I will be doing anyway!!

    Countries a Joke!!

  42. alan at 1:35 pm

    I just cant wait to get out of this hell hole of a country..Im emigrating so you wont get your hands on my cash

  43. Maureen Reynolds at 1:35 pm

    Certainly not and what about the thousands living in apartment complexes who already pay an annual maintenance fee? We are now to have the property and water tax added, looks like the total erosion of the middle classes, there are untouchables above and below us

  44. Dave B at 1:31 pm

    Householders hit with Property Tax regardless of Stamp Duty paid: Is it fair?

    Course it’s not, that’s what Stamp duty was for, but what’s anyone going to do about it??????

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