Which is fairer: Property Tax or a Site Value Tax?

Which is fairer: Property Tax or a Site Value Tax?

Which is fairer: Property Tax or a Site Value Tax?Homeowners may see their purse strings get even tighter this year with the possible introduction of a new Property Tax or a Land / Site Value Tax for all.

While such a tax was not introduced in the last budget it was indicated that a Property Tax or a Site / Land Value Tax is something that the Government is looking at introducing and which has also been mentioned in the Commission for Taxation, The Programme for Government and in the EU IMF Bailout. All reports recommend moving away from our reliance on transaction taxes and to introduce some form of a Property Tax that would provide a more stable stream of revenue.

A Property Tax would take into account the size of your home whereas a Land / Site Value Tax only looks at the parcel of land that you are on and taxes it accordingly. Either way if you live in an urban area close to amenities and services or in a rural area with a nice plot of land the new tax would have a sizable financial impact.

While some agree with the introduction of more sustainable types of tax for others the introduction is too soon and many more are angered that they would have to pay the tax regardless of the amount of Stamp Duty they paid in the past.

Have your say:

  • Do you agree with the introduction of a Property Tax or a Site Value tax?
  • If introduced which would be fairer: Property Tax or a Site Value tax?
  • Is this tax just a new way for the government to grab money from our pockets?
There are 33 comments for this article
  1. What you don’t know, won’t hurt you at 10:05 am

    Which is fairer: Property Tax or a Site Value Tax? The crrect answer is neither.

    I laugh at all the idiots who posts on forums like his making post about fair and equitable taxes. These taxes are not being proposed as part of a reform of a tax system that shifted its tax base from income to spending over the past 20 years. The reagan/thatcher “light-touch” monetarist policy pursued by mccrevey, ahern and the rest of the economic terrorists in finna failure have destroyed the Irish economicy and handed control of Ireland future to a cartel of new world order bankers in Europe.

    Morgan Kelly is correct that Ireland’s future depends on breaking free from bailout, not of Irish banks, but what is in fact a bailout of the ECB french and german banks. lenihan’s decision to guarantee the bonds of Irish banks, the money owed to the ECB, french and german banks was a mistake so obvious and so stupid that it beggars belief.

    Ireland is facing economic ruin.

    Both the ECB and IMF have policy documents that a bailout of a company should only take place after the shareholders and bondholders have been hit i.e. the lenders should pay for their stupidity of not monotoring what is going on in a company. This is what happened wit Irish banks, the ECB, french and german banks were quite happy to fuel Irelands property boom as because they were taking interest on the money they were giving to the Irish banks. Did they care that they creating a property bubble? No they didn’t because these bankers were getting their bonuses every year.

    Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744-1812), founder of the House of Rothschild, said “Let me issue and control a nation’s money and I care not who writes the laws”. The Rothschilds, at one time, controlled the entire banking system of Europe, had control of The Bank Of England in 1814 and the Rothschilds family was the driving force behind the Federal Reserve.

    Now because of the stupidity of finnia failure, the Irish taxpayer has been saddled with the debts of these sort of people.

    The real reason is not that there are any fundamental problems the the PIGS economies, the real problem is the manipulation of world markets targeting these countries speculating against the euro. ref: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1253791/Is-man-broke-Bank-England-George-Soros-centre-hedge-funds-betting-crisis-hit-euro.html

    So Which is fairer; Property Tax or a Site Value Tax? The correct answer is neither. Its time for the ordinary people to reject the new world order of the central banks, to take control of own lives, burn bondholders (preferably at the stake), the Irish taxpayer should not be held responsible for greed of these bankers.

  2. ray at 6:27 pm

    Natalie Hewson well said spot on. They wanna use your sweat to pay the speculative f****** bond holders. hell no, Regular Irish ppl need to stand up and stop been submissive and meek to these evil and immoral EU cabals of europe and the IMF and their Irish co-conspirators or else u will all be toast soon. have said my piece am out

  3. ray at 6:18 pm

    none of the above the people are already taxed to death as it is on top of negative equity plus ware charges wtf. let the government collect the taxes from the looters and the bankers. government now are pushing their luck too far

  4. pat at 12:52 pm

    Property taxes are levied worldwide. If we had one in Ireland we wouldn’t be in such a mess as we are now! Site value tax or site rating taxation is used in very few countries worldwide – it is a complicated method of property taxation with planning potential having to be factored in to arrive at a site value. We also have no site transactions to estimate site values in comparison to property transactions in which there is some evidence.

  5. Ally McCoi at 11:37 am

    These gombeen chancers (Bertie/Biffo/BOD) should be impeached.

  6. Mark at 12:27 am

    Taxing a person’s home is wrong and I’m pretty sure the Irish would be a hard bunch to get it off of.

  7. Michael Baker at 10:06 pm

    Enough is enough, we are bailing out the banks directly and indirectly (taxation & mortgages). We should take a stand against them all and refuse to pay any more. No other race of people would put up it and taking more out of our pockets will make the economy even worse and what happens then! – They’ll need more money from us.

  8. Frances Casey at 8:44 pm

    Ah huge unreserved NO to property tax and water rate charge of 175 euro.Its time the people of this country got of their backsides and said enough is enough. We cannot afford to pay anything else most people are already up to their eyes trying to pay bills and make ends meet and not succeeding.Its now time to stop paying for the mistakes of previous governments and the banks

  9. michelle at 8:29 pm

    ive paid stamp duty of3200 for my house and and around 7ooo for my shop in 2004 ..why should i pay twice ….when i lived in england i had money and a life …here im skint and no life …ireland is depressing as a country ..we re strangled with bills and debt and no chance to improve ..get a grip neither if weve already paid……….

  10. Tina at 6:12 pm

    After handing over 27,000 es in stamp duty I am not happy to think that I may now have to pay more tax on my own property. There are plenty of people who are struggling with their mortgages every month without somebody deciding to put them into more difficulty. The taxes we pay on other services are not working E.g Car tax = better roads? Our bin service is disgraceful. Sorry lads look somewhere else for the much needed monies eg. social welfare fraud, theres plenty of that going on!

  11. alex at 5:21 pm

    I will refuse to pay any such tax until such time as we get proper accountability for where all these taxes are going, and until such time as they come up with a fair system of taxation where those who can afford to pay more will pay more. I will refuse to pay a water tax also for the same reason. I will go to jail before I will pay any more!

    My blood is also boiling about the way we ordinary citizens are being treated by this government of “change”. It amazes me that people keep on letting the govt take, take, take from ordinary joe soaps while middle and upper administration and management in the public, civil service and govt depts are grossly underworked and overpaid. It is there that the real savings need to be made on the budget deficit and not with all these stealth taxes that just depress our economy further!

    Rip up the croke park agreement, impose redundancies on at least 40% of admin and management (not front line) staff in the public and civil service, and then I will reconsider my position. Until that is done I will go to jail or leave this country first before I will pay out another “red cent” (as Leo Varadker puts it)

  12. Dannyboy at 4:23 pm

    I think they should bring it in.

    In fact, I think they should bring in a range of local authority taxes.

    All of these new taxes and climbing interest rates are decimating the price of Irish houses.

    Before the greedy landlords were gaining colossal amount of money through property.
    Now, a good chunk of money will be diverted to the local authority.

    The only downside is that they’re Irish Local Authorities, so the money will be squandered anyway.

  13. Rosaleen Butler at 4:15 pm

    A property or land site tax is fine as long as it is fair and affordable. Lets not go down the road of the USA where the elderly who cannot afford property tax loose their homes and end up in trailer parks. Lets have a cut off point, maybe means tested so no citizen of this state looses their home because of taxes.
    We have had landlords long enough, let us at least be sure of owning our homes in our old age.

  14. Breda at 3:48 pm

    I think that it would be disgraceful for any tax to be levied on our homes, we pay enough, I live in a rural area, and pay for my own sewege tank, recycling and waste disposal and I pay for my water with a private water scheme, the roads are a mess, what is this money for, just leave the poor overburdened taxpayer alone.

  15. Natalie Hewson at 3:46 pm

    I think the Irish Government are a bunch of thieving crooks. It is because they have not done their jobs properly in the past that they now seek to screw the ordinary hard working people of Ireland for more of their hard earned money. The people are hard pressed as it is and a lot are in negative equity. I think it is better to be screwing the system and get a council house and everything else paid for!!! It seems to be the only way to go! The tax payers are the fools for these so called ministers of the Irish Government! Don’t pay them any more taxes because if you do, there’ll be another one next year and the year after as that is the way it appears to be heading…

  16. Patrick at 3:45 pm

    I agree with Mick, ‘the fairest way is to have a site value tax’ so those people with the bigger houses and land would have to pay more, its like car tax which should be included in the petrol price, so those who use the car most have to pay more, then people would use public transport more, and reduce their carbon footprint.

  17. kate at 3:25 pm

    You pay your tax and while saving to buy your home should this not be enough. Is it double taxation or even more than that.

    Its just another unjust tax to pay off the bankers and politicians

  18. Alec at 3:22 pm

    seriously how thick are this lot and the last lot. How many people are already in arrears with their mortgage, bills, trying to live??? 10,20,30,40 thousand or is it more now? they are putting people in jail for not paying a tv license and yet is there 1, just 1, of those corrupt lieing robbing ( i have to calm down before my blood boils anymore.) politicians, developers, etc in jail. no because the big wigs are the 1’s making money form them. All any more tax’s will do is put even more people in arrears. and I tell you now if any1 tries taking my house off me against my choice god help them. otherwise they keep whats left of my house i only bought 7 months ago after i finish with it and a 1 way ticket for me it is. this country is a laughing stock of the world for what we are letting them away with they have even taken away the Irishness of this once beautiful and well respected country. Marches arent good enough.. The banks try to take our houses or more so OUR HOMES and well we I guess just have to take theirs. and I am sure they have a pretty nice house. better than the average person thats for sure… And what am I meant to pay the same property tax on a 3 bed bungalow as a politician / developer living in a 6/7 bed mansion?? well i guess as they are making the rules/decissions I won’t have a say for sure. until i cant pay and then it will be a case of come and try get it. And you want to have the special force outside my front door. you can only be treated worse than an animal for so long before you start acting like 1.. And if they try going down their road of court then guess what I wont be able to afford that either so they can bring the judge to my front door and all if they like. they seem to forget most of the country hates Dublin so they wont have anywere to hide.

  19. Mick at 2:32 pm

    I believe it’s another way to grab money from the already overburdened. Tax the non doms on their worldwide assets and you will get money from those who can afford it. The US tax citizens on their worldwide income.

    If it has to go ahead, the fairest way is to have a site value tax which will impact those with the highest assets and therefore spread the burden evenly.

  20. Simon at 2:21 pm

    Neither is fair, I will be paying for my 3 bed semi house for the next 32 years, currently it’s worth probably half of what it was when I purchased, I have paid stamp duty three times already on previous houses. Enough is enough, you can only squeeze people so much.

  21. Jonathan at 2:20 pm

    My house, like many other houses in the country, is currently worth less than what I initially paid for it. Why should I pay tax on an asset which is unlikely to increase in value for the next 5-10years?

  22. Liza at 2:09 pm

    Agree totally with Jamie. We the ordinary taxpayer have been nailed to the cross with the burden of rescuing the gambling bankers. Now those same bankers have the absolute barefaced cheek to raise interest rates in order to return to profitability. Our money rescued these morons & we got nothing in return. The very least we should have been given was a write down on our home mortgages to compensate for their outright recklessness. But no we the poor old suckers are now to be hit again with another tax to try & rescue this sinking ship of a country. Bloody disgrace if you ask me.

  23. Jamie at 1:48 pm

    I think any sort of property tax – no matter what form it takes – is an absolute scandal. Hundreds of thousands of decent people are currently sitting in homes that are worth half the massive loans that they owe to the banks. Many of these people are now unemployed or struggling to make ends meet. Banks who were part of the problem continue to squeeze them by increasing interest rates. Property developers who were part of the problem are swanning around in Bentleys and living in luxury and the politicians who were part of the problem have handed over the keys and retired with big fat pensions. Once a again joe public is being financially assaulted and being asked to pay for the mistakes of the rich and powerful. Lets not forget that these now worthless properties have often been subject to Stamp Duty and VAt already. Now we are expected to pay for owning a home which we were herded into doing by the media and our government. Outrageous. I for one will not pay it – I refuse and I think the Irish people need to take to the streets like they did in the UK if this comes to pass.

  24. Colm at 1:44 pm

    Our estate is on the edge of a rural village with no public transport, no garda station, no post office. I am already paying road tax, VRT, excise duty etc, etc for the maintenance of the large 5 mile pot hole running outside the estate (it is potmarked with bits of road but the council seem to have done their best in recent years to eliminate these). I already pay a private company for my bin. The sewage system is a stand alone system for the estate paid for by management company fees. The street lighting both inside and outside the estate is paid for my management company fees. The twice a year weed cutting in the “green space” is paid for by management company fees. Residents sweep the road and footpaths.

    So I’m not sure what a property tax will pay for other than Alan Duke’s next Merc.

    I have to pay the management company €1000 to maintain our estate (that’s a rip off in itself but it’s not an issue for this discussion). IF the council take over the estate and replace the management company then I will be happy to pay a reasonable tax. However if the council continue to refuse to take over the estate then I will refuse to pay the tax and they can see me in the supreme court.

  25. Mrs O’Brien at 1:44 pm

    I think its terrible that they are trying to introduce even more taxes, especially on the hard strapped mortgaged house owners. It is so unfair, most people including myself are struggling to keep up with mortgage payments as it is, interest rates are on the up too, more and more people will end up losing their homes! Its so unfair that you are penalised for having bought a property, especially when you bought it during the so called celtic tiger & are in negative equity, so you really don’t own anything, except a large debt. People in council houses, will they have to pay this?? I don’t think so! If they are going to introduce it then they should make everybody pay even the ones that don’t own their property, they still live on the land don’t they?? I lost my job and my family are living on just my husbands wage, with a large mortgage that was approved on both our earnings, financially we are worse off than some families claiming state benefits, I know we won’t be able to take anymore strain, we are barely living and have exhausted all our savings now to pay bills and have gone heavily into debt,I just feel like running away from it all!! Can they not means test this tax??

  26. Tom at 1:42 pm

    If you paid stamp duty then this should be added as credit to your property tax account. Once the credit is used up you start to pay.

    I think that would be fair.

  27. Lorraine Conway at 1:38 pm

    I agree with Derek’s comment – if introduced it has to be an amount that is seen as affordable to all households. With the high probability that water charges are also on their way and the report that gas bills are going back up again we are getting further away from pulling ourselves out of this mess.

  28. Eddie at 1:29 pm

    I would agree with paying a reasonable amount, say 150eur per year as long as the people with more than one house pay much more than this on second, third homes etc as this would have the haves paying proportionally more, for once.

  29. colm at 1:23 pm

    i have paid my stamp duty on my property-everytime i moved in the past and think it is very unfair to pay twice

  30. Paddy tax payer at 1:22 pm

    Property tax should be calculated according to the cost of providing services to the property in question. This is only fair. It costs a lot more to run water pipes, sewers, electricity, school buses, etc to rural properties than to urban homes. This must be taken into consideration if we are to avoid the urban dwellers paying for the country folk.

  31. Derek Davies at 1:16 pm

    A form of property tax would be ok, providing it was set as say €150 per year, per household, regardless of property size or value, and not increased any more than annual inflation.

  32. M at 1:10 pm

    No matter what it’s called, people just cannot afford to pay out any more.

  33. natasha at 1:03 pm

    I think unfortunately just a way to grab more money from our pockets. Will we receive anything for this tax? For example, council tax in the U.K. you receive services, money goes to local schools, clean pavements, bins collections covered etc.

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